Jp enhanced bolt vs lmt

Jp enhanced bolt vs lmt DEFAULT
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  1. 14 August 2017, 05:27#1
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    Best .308 BCG?

    I am sitting in a hotel room in China right now trying to think about something other than work....which means spending more money

    The last time I did this about a week or two ago I bought two suppressors.

    I still haven't quite gotten over my .308/AR10 fixation yet so in my down time I have been planning out what a build would look like, especially now that I have a .308 can on the way.

    There is a lot of selection on a lot of parts, but it seems like there is limited choices on BCG for an AR10. I know I have asked that question before (or I think I have).

    I am pretty tight with money but for a long term investment its just better to get what you want the first time and be done with it. That said I don't want to spend $500 on a BCG that was soaked in whale snot for a month then gold plated. I don't really want anything shiny because guns get dirty. Black is my preference.

    I have several AR15 BCG now and my favorite ones are Griffin and CMT in a close second. They are both nitride. I have phosphate too but now I actually prefer the nitride. You can't find a tool mark on the Griffin one. It's slick too.

    Aero is a maybe for me. I don't hold anything against them at all, but I am weighing other options sheerly on the grounds that I would like something like a Fathom or Griffin or something like that. I think Lantac makes one but they appreciate theirs a bit too much.

    Lets face it. I am going for a bit of vanity here when it comes to brand name/logo etc, but not too much vanity.

    Any ideas?

  2. 14 August 2017, 05:44#2
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  3. 14 August 2017, 15:44#3
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlippersView Post
    Yes.

    Here are some others I've used that have worked for me:

    Rainier Nitrided .308
    FALKOR Nitrided
    AIM was hit and miss. Sent one back, they replaced it, and it's worked 100% since.

    I was going to put the Lantac .308 EBCG, but UPS stole it. I'm sure the Lantac is 100% though if it's anything like their 5.56 EBCGs

  4. 14 August 2017, 16:00#4
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    My Rainier one worked fine given the operating conditions it was asked to operate in. But honestly, the easiest answer is to just buy a complete LMT or KAC rifle and call it a day.

  5. 14 August 2017, 16:20#5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatordevView Post
    My Rainier one worked fine given the operating conditions it was asked to operate in. But honestly, the easiest answer is to just buy a complete LMT or KAC rifle and call it a day.
    100%. Main reason I decided to finally get a factory MWS.

  6. 14 August 2017, 19:28#6
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    Right now to be honest I have a lot going on with other non gun things. Talking shop with the brothers is more than welcome believe me.

    Usually when my wants linger for a long time its just a matter of time after that. When I get back to America (been gone almost two months) I might hunt someone down with an AR10 and give it a whirl.

    Either way I go though I have a Recce 7 on the way so I am diving into that end of the pool one way or another. I have a lot of options on the want list and that Recce 7 can go on a whole lot of things....

  7. 14 August 2017, 20:22#7
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    Rainier Ultramatch or JP FMOS.

    And if you are buying a complete .308 just buy a SCAR. My SR25 convinced me Knights is a whole lot of upcharge for a name.

  8. 14 August 2017, 20:27#8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SINNERView Post
    Rainier Ultramatch or JP FMOS.

    And if you are buying a complete .308 just buy a SCAR. My SR25 convinced me Knights is a whole lot of upcharge for a name.
    I'd love to have a KAC SR25, but at like 1/2 price. Never super impressed with my limited trigger time on one to justify spending 2x MWS price

  9. 14 August 2017, 20:31#9
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    If people are going to suggest LMT then I'll suggest a JP LMOS w/ a POF roller cam. Pair it with an SLR Sentry adjustable gas block and you'll be able to tune for reliable function and smooth action.



    My only factory AR is an LMT, so I'm a fan, but it's easy to save $1,000-$2,000 over the MWS and end up with a weapon just as reliable, accurate, and lighter. I personally don't care for the handguard options on the MWS and the proprietary parts will add cost and limitations if you want to tinker. Arguably, there is no need to tinker w/ the MWS, but for those of us where building is half the fun it just, well, steals half the fun.

  10. 15 August 2017, 05:35#10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoilerUpView Post
    If people are going to suggest LMT then I'll suggest a JP LMOS w/ a POF roller cam. Pair it with an SLR Sentry adjustable gas block and you'll be able to tune for reliable function and smooth action.

    My only factory AR is an LMT, so I'm a fan, but it's easy to save $1,000-$2,000 over the MWS and end up with a weapon just as reliable, accurate, and lighter. I personally don't care for the handguard options on the MWS and the proprietary parts will add cost and limitations if you want to tinker. Arguably, there is no need to tinker w/ the MWS, but for those of us where building is half the fun it just, well, steals half the fun.
    I think that's the entire point of the factory gun like the MWS, there is no need to "tinker" The MWS / L129A1 is a battle proven rifle, not your average cobbled together home build. Then again not everyone wants or needs a battle proven gun, I totally get that, nor do they want to pay for it. I have however, seen used (mostly lightly used) MWS's on the secondary market for close to 2K. That's a steal.

    The gun shoots like accurately, reliably, with minimal overgas out of the box. Probably the smoothest shooting 308 I've ever shot.

  11. 15 August 2017, 06:02#11
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    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77View Post
    I'd love to have a KAC SR25, but at like 1/2 price. Never super impressed with my limited trigger time on one to justify spending 2x MWS price
    Exactly. If you saw the condition/finish quality of my SR25 out of the box you would understand why I laughed about people complaining about a blemished lower. But it was a "battle rifle" so I partially expected it to be rough around the edges as most Knights weapons are. But it was also severely overgassed and had a sharp, hard to control recoil. I'll put any .308 platform I've built against a SR25 for how it runs. But that goes back to the battle rifle and the requirements to run no matter what. I'm certain the SR25 would eat just about anything you fed it, as it should.

    Quote Originally Posted by UWone77View Post
    I think that's the entire point of the factory gun like the MWS, there is no need to "tinker" The MWS / L129A1 is a battle proven rifle, not your average cobbled together home build. Then again not everyone wants or needs a battle proven gun, I totally get that, nor do they want to pay for it. I have however, seen used (mostly lightly used) MWS's on the secondary market for close to 2K. That's a steal.

    The gun shoots like accurately, reliably, with minimal overgas out of the box. Probably the smoothest shooting 308 I've ever shot.
    I really need to get my hands on a LMT .308.

    And off topic I know but a few people whose opinions I trust have raved about the new Daniel Defense .308 and how well they shoot. Including one person with the largest collection of SR25's I know of in one place. Our opinions differ though as he dislikes SCAR's lol

  12. 15 August 2017, 06:39#12
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    I have a little trigger time on the DD5v1/v2. The original v1 had a pretty sharp recoil, but the newer v2 with 18" barrel and rifle gas is a whole lot smoother. It also helps to ditch the carbine receiver extension/proprietary buffer and go to an A5 length with a normal H3 carbine buffer (like an LMT MWS). Very smooth, and surprisingly light.

    Interestingly, my friend sold his MWS and DD5v2 and now has an ACC, but has no range time yet. I'll be curious if he keeps it or goes back to one of the others.

  13. 15 August 2017, 07:58#13
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    I had one from a major sponsor here that was expensive and an absolute piece of crap. In all fairness, I won't name them, because there was such a length of time and trouble between when I bought it and the day I threw it in the trash. By the time I had quit screwing with it, and figured out the problem, I had not contacted them about it, thus the anonymity concerning that one.
    Replaced it with an Aero Precision nitride BCG. "Relatively" inexpensive solution and the thing runs as smooth as butter since the first shot.

    FT
    Last edited by FortTom; 21 August 2017 at 06:31.
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  14. 15 August 2017, 20:13#14
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    I run a Jp Vmos with an enhanced bolt their silent capture buffer and a Superlative Arms gas block , not a cheap set up but the carrier is half black
    Name:  jp-enterprises-large-frame-vmos-bolt-carrier-group-w-2-tungten-and-high-pressure-308-bolt-jpbc-7.jpg Views: 1622 Size:  21.9 KB

  15. 9 September 2018, 20:09#15
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    Name:  1C99D36F-7D68-44C9-981A-7BA30E96A612.jpeg Views: 1887 Size:  1.15 MB
    Replaced my RA UltraMatch 308 BCG w the Lantac E-BCG Heavy a few days ago.. Haven't shot it yet..
    There was nothing wrong w the Ultra Match.. Im just goin thru all of my rifles when my wife is not lookin..
    She bought me this Receiver Set a few Christmas's ago.. I did the rest.. Not a factory rifle..
    Last edited by ZhouJett; 9 September 2018 at 21:57.

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Thread: Most reliable BCG for Grendel pistol?

  • 07-14-2020, 10:45 PM#1

    Disciple is offline
    Bloodstained

    Most reliable BCG for Grendel pistol?

    I am looking for the most reliable BCG for an AR-15 pistol with a 10.5" 6.5 Grendel barrel, carbine length gas system, and A2 sight gas block. The YFS bolts on the Alexander Arms carrier concern me as I have read that these can be a point of failure. I have also read here of broken extractors so I would like to mitigate that potential. The LMT Enhanced Bolt Carrier sounds like it would help, if I can find one. Is it a good idea?

    I want a complete BCG so that I can keep the AA one as a spare. If I get the LMT carrier I'll need to buy a bolt separately. The SixFive Mk136 bolts are out of stock and the JP EnhancedBolt is three times the price. Is the JP actually better?

    The LMT/JP combination is the limit of what I can spend but it if will be meaningfully more reliable I am willing.

    What do you recommend?


  • 07-14-2020, 10:52 PM#2

    A5BLASTER is offline
    Chieftain

    The bcg you have now will work just fine.

    No need to spend more money on parts that won't and can't do any better then what you already have.

    If you don't have a adjustable gas block on this gun, then get some tungsten weights for your buffer and adjust the buffer weight till your ejecting at the 3 to 3:30 area and the bcg will lock back after the last round.

    Lapp the upper reciver to give a good square bolt lock up for bolt and extractor life.


  • 07-14-2020, 11:06 PM#3

    Disciple is offline
    Bloodstained

    The YFS bolts are not worth concern? Are problems from those an urban legend?

    I still want a spare BCG. I don't believe I can get another complete BCG from AA. If I get another AA bolt what do you suggest I put it in?


  • 07-14-2020, 11:21 PM#4

    A5BLASTER is offline
    Chieftain

    If by AA you mean Alexander arms, I wouldn't worrie about the gas key bolts at all AA doesn't produce are sell bad products. As too reports of broken bolts on the gas key, I have never experienced that happening and don't know anyone who has. But honestly never went looking for reports of it either. Two of my bcg's are from AA.

    As too what to put a spare bolt in, I keep one in my day pack with my truck gun, my house defense gun and my hunting day packs.

    If a bolt goes down, just swap it into your bcg and get the rifle back up and going.


  • 07-14-2020, 11:29 PM#5

    Disciple is offline
    Bloodstained
    Yes, I meant Alexander Arms. You will find reports of broken YFS gas key bolts if you do go looking, but I don't know how much to trust those. BCM and other make a point of domestically sourced grade 8 bolts.

  • 07-14-2020, 11:59 PM#6

    Disciple is offline
    Bloodstained

    Just one example, YFS bolts being described as "junky fasteners" by someone who seems to know his business.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrJl3LThLFw


  • 07-15-2020, 12:07 AM#7

    A5BLASTER is offline
    Chieftain
    Don't know. Never had a problem with any of the AA bcg's I have.

    To be honest I'm more of a lowmass bcg guy, and run the rightobear lowmass bcg's. But my AA bcg's have a few thousand rounds on them each and no problems. Not anywhere's close to the round counts on my lowmass bcg's.

  • 07-15-2020, 12:08 AM#8

    FLshooter is offline
    Chieftain FLshooter's Avatar

    I have several toolcraft BCG.Never given me a problem.


  • 07-15-2020, 12:26 AM#9

    Growler is offline
    Warrior

    LMT enhanced carrier was designed for an already overgassed rifle running with the additional stress of suppressed operation. Nothing wrong with it but it’s sure pricey.

    JP is known for making top tier bolts for the competition space, but you have to decide if the cost/benefit is right for your use case.

    With all the 6mm ARC rifles under construction, there should be an abundance of bolts available in the not too distant future. I’d put some rounds on the one you have, inspect it as often as you like, and grow confidence with it. There should be more options soon.

    The most reliable bolt may just be the one you have successfully put 1000 rounds on and have good results and wear signs.

    Broken bolts are usually a sign of bad heat treat; a bad receiver face; over pressure loads (I’m looking at you 8208XBR); or a most excellent round count, as they are cycle limited components.


  • 07-15-2020, 01:10 AM#10

    Disciple is offline
    Bloodstained

    Growler, the LMT and JP are expensive but this will be my primary home defense, so if these are actually better and not just fancy marketing I am willing to pay. But since I don't have a suppressor perhaps the LMT is not appropriate? Bravo Company (BCM) and Daniel Defense do not appear to sell bare carriers and one of their complete BCG's would be at least as much as the LMT carrier. The JP carriers are also more expensive. I have seen the LMT carriers listed for $149 (but out of stock). Is there a less expensive "first tier" carrier to put a Grendel bolt into?

    Perhaps I should wait for other options to appear as you said.

    Last edited by Disciple; 07-15-2020 at 01:15 AM.


  • 07-15-2020, 01:58 AM#11

    Growler is offline
    Warrior

    Home defense is important, but a decently simple use case. Unless you keep sand in your safe or leave the heater off and live in the arctic circle, your gun will likely run well.

    I’d spend your money on enjoyable high quality training and buckets of ammo. Run a few training courses with your AA BCG, then inspect it. If it looks good, set it aside as your reserve, now that it’s proven. Between now and then, there should be more options available. I’d look for a Geissele 6mm ARC BCG, or wait for the next group buy Grendel bolt and put it in this:

    https://www.primaryarms.com/geissele...-carrier-group

    Really, the only wrong answer is any BCG you shoot one box through and then assume it’s good.

    For example, my first LMT carrier had an unfinished bolt tail, and wouldn’t fit the JP bolt I wanted to put in it. I returned the carrier and ended up buying a complete LMT enhanced BCG. It’s a fine BCG, but now I wish I had made that investment in more ammo.


  • 07-15-2020, 02:27 AM#12

    Disciple is offline
    Bloodstained

    Growler, thank you for the advice. Now rather than upgrading I would like a second BCG as a backup, even if it's the same type. I will wait to see if the SixFive Mk136 bolts come back in stock as $55 is a great price. You seem to have had a mixed experience with LMT; would you still recommend them? With more searching I found a non-enhanced LMT carrier for $120; completed it would be about the same as the Geissele.


  • 07-16-2020, 03:27 AM#13

    Kswhitetails is offline
    Chieftain Kswhitetails's Avatar

    Any true Mil spec BCG, and a Group buy 65arms bolt. This doesn't need to be rocket science. Grendel works with the M4 pattern system. It takes a new barrel and bolt, and mags. Otherwise, leave it alone. It's not hard. Save yourself the troubles, and don't make it so.

    Nothing kills the incentive of men faster than a healthy sense of entitlement. Nothing kills entitlement faster than a healthy sense of achievement.


  • 07-16-2020, 03:54 PM#14

    Disciple is offline
    Bloodstained

    Yes, I'll wait for the SixFive Mk136 bolts to be restocked. Thank you.


  • 07-20-2020, 12:18 PM#15

    82HALO is offline
    Warrior 82HALO's Avatar

    I also use right to bear arms light BC with never a problem with the group buy bolts!


  • 07-20-2020, 03:11 PM#16

    Growler is offline
    Warrior
    QuoteOriginally Posted by Disciple

    You seem to have had a mixed experience with LMT; would you still recommend them? With more searching I found a non-enhanced LMT carrier for $120; completed it would be about the same as the Geissele.

    Still don’t have enough rounds on my LMT enhanced BCG to give an opinion. So far, it’s fine. My build philosophy changed after I put it together and that is the reason for the low rounds count on it. Originally, I planned to use a fixed gas block on a shorter barrel—that’s the gas management issue it was designed to band-aid. I’m now running adjustable gas blocks and tuning for specific loads. This approach is a trade-off. Not as reliable for temperature extremes or light loads, but it runs much smoother.

    I originally bought an unusual version, carrier only (no bolt). I got a one-off result. Can’t judge LMT or any other manufacturer for that, as Murphy plays in one-off situations. When I returned it for a complete BCG, I got a smooth finished, tight little gem. Customer service was great.

  • 07-20-2020, 08:56 PM#17

    montana is offline
    Chieftain montana's Avatar

    Not all bolt carrier groups are made the same. I have many different types of BCG from back to the 70's. I pin gauge all of them, test the straightness of the gas keys, and check the finish with a bore scope.. Four of my favorite were quite cheep when purchased many years ago. The machining, internal finish were perfect. That said, I use only BCM BCG's in all of my new builds. BCM has been very consistent with their manufacturing. JP is top of the line and is the Cadillac of AR manufactured products.. I have an older Olympic bolt carrier that had the gas key channel milled crooked..If you are concerned with the YFS fastners, then it is quite easy to replace the screws with a new BCM key and fastners...https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-gas-key-with-fasteners/ You can seal around the gas key port with Permatex aviation form a gasket https://www.permatex.com/products/ga...ealant-liquid/ or use green loctite. Torgue to 58-60 inch lbs...


  • 07-21-2020, 04:40 PM#18

    Disciple is offline
    Bloodstained
    Thank you, I will do that or have it done.

  • 07-22-2020, 01:30 AM#19

    montana is offline
    Chieftain montana's Avatar
    QuoteOriginally Posted by DiscipleView Post

    Thank you, I will do that or have it done.

    If you are the do it yourselfer kind of person, the best gas key fasteners and counter staking tools are from Michiguns LTD. http://www.m-guns.com/tools.php

  • 07-22-2020, 02:27 PM#20

    am4966 is offline
    Chieftain am4966's Avatar

    If your worried about the bolts on your gas key on the carrier then just replace them. It’s not hard and it’s a lot cheaper than buying a new carrier.

    But I’m gonna say you’ll probably never shoot enough ammo through your Grendel to stress the bolts on the gas key.


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    LMT Enhanced BCG

    Docsherm said:

    Please clarify what you mean practical and what application you mean also.Without that it would appear that you are regurgitating the internet fad of the next great new thing, because it is new.

    But if you have actual reasons i would like to hesr them.

    Click to expand...


    I can't quite tell if you are being flippant or not... that said... but, respectfully...

    I think the post is clear enough.

    No regurgitating needed. You don't need to agree with me , but I would appreciate a more civil response rather then you assuming your discription of a "Without that it would appear that you are the internet fad of the next great new thing, because it is new."

    It would have been easier to just ask what I meant.

    Thank You.

    For me it looks like a "practcal" solution to typical over gassed issues.. suppressed or not.

    Lots of barrels tend to have over sized gas ports... look at all the people using ( required / needed, or not.. is up to the owner ) extra power recoil springs and heavier buffer weights and Adj. GB's to help "tame" the recoil impulse.... Not to mention +1 , +2, and more + gas length systems.

    Regardless, a whole lot of those above mentioned parts have been sold to "fix" a to large gas port.

    If gas ports were more "practical" on AR15's .... there might not be so many differnet heavier buffers / stronger recoil springs / gas flow limiting products.

    Darn near every Large Frame AR I own has been needlessly over-gassed, with various brand barrels ( Criterion, BA, FN, PSA ) and gas system lengths. Yet all of them with Adj. GB's need only 6 of the available 15 clicks open to function in 25 degrees and up .
    Only my Krieger 6.5CM barrel has a gas port size that doesn't benefit from a Adj. GB.

    FWIW, all of the gas ports are within "Spec" size for the cartridge and gas port position. The Krieger gas port is considerably smaller.

    The internet is full of other AR15 barrels from respected manufacturers, with over sized gas ports ( DD is well known for previous barrels gas ports being large, they have since made them smaller.. Look it up )

    For the most part a reasonably smaller gas port could accomplish the same thing.

    Not every one uses their AR's as a "Tier One" operator. And I realize a decent sized gas port helps assure function under horrible conditions... and that is important for people with their life in danger routinely.

    If a smaller gas port can help keep an average AR shooter on target, and allow easier follow up shots.. I feel it deserves mention.

    It may not be the "perfect" solution for every AR... but, IMO, it is worth considering.

    Lots of AR owners modify their AR's and live happy lives with them.

    At this point.. you and I can disagree... that is what makes a shooting forum great.

     

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    Vs lmt jp enhanced bolt

    Picture
    LMT - (click here to purchase)
    Proprietary Nickel Finish
    Fully Supported Cartridge Base
    Improved extractor (duel extractor springs), improved extractor claw, stress relieved locking lugs, MPI and proof tested

    MSRP $299
    Code JBA - takes $25 off

    Picture
    HM Defense - (click here to purchase)  
    Black Nitride
    9310 Steel
    Solid bottom am slot and proprietary cam pin
    MSRP $79


    Picture
    Picture
    JP - (click here to purchase)
    Chromium Nitride/Black DLC
    9310 Steel
    Additional material around cam pin hole
    Enhanced Ejector



    MSRP $118.99

    Code JBA - takes $25 off

    Picture
    LMT - (click to purchase)  
    Manganese Phosphate
    Modified Cam Track
    Fully Supported Front of carrier for bolt
    Three gas vent holes
    Modifies gas port, two vents instead of one

    MSRP $169 with enhanced bolt $299
    Code JBA - takes $25 off

    Picture
    LWRC - (click to purchase)   
    Nickel Type Finish
    1-piece carrier with stainless steel gas key (patented)
    Eliminates gas leakage from carrier key
    Part of PIP program for Army

    MSRP $309.99 with standard bolt

    Picture
    POF-USA - (click to purchase)   High Phosphate Nickel Finish, 1-piece carrier with stainless steel gas key, use of POF Roller Cam


    MSRP $255.99 with standard chrome bolt

    Picture
    Lantac - (click to purchase)   
    NiB UCT EXO coating
    8620 Steel
    Forward Gas Porting
    Enlarged Gas Vents
    Flared Boss on rear of carrier
    Comes with Carpenter 158 bolt


    MSRP $232.49

    Picture
    JP - (click to purchase)       
    Full Mass Carrier (semi-auto only)
    Polished and QPQ finish
    416 Stainless Steel
    100% increase in bearing surface for smoother operation and lower wear on upper receiver



    MSRP $214.99
    (carrier only)
    Code JBA - takes $25 off

    Picture
    Picture
    DS Arms - (click here to purchase)    Proprietary Nickel, Teflon finish (lower friction than nickel boron), 8620 Steel
    FAL-type sand cuts, Chrome plated carrier and key, Bolt is 9310 Super Alloy MPI and Proof
    MSRP $129

    Picture
    Picture
    Black Rifle Arms - (click here to purchase)   
    Buffer Technology (polymer rear of carrier)
    8620 Steel
    NiB EXO Fail Zero Coating
    Polymer rear tested to 17K rounds without fail. Reduces wear and recoil
    MSRP $184.99

    Picture
    Gemtech - (click here to purchase)    2-position gas valve (suppressed and un suppressed)
    Reduced carrier speed when suppressed
    Reduction in felt recoil and reduces blowback in shooters face when suppressed. Less wear on weapon system when suppressed. In 14.5 in bbl, there is 25% decrease in carrier velocity when suppressed.
    DESIGNED FOR SUPERSONIC AMMO ONLY
    No published specifications
    MSRP $231.99
    Code JBA - takes $25 off


    Picture
    Bootleg - (click here to purchase)   
    S7 Tool Steel
    Lithium Isonite Ciating
    4-position gas valve
    Reduced carrier speed when suppressed
    Reduction in felt recoil and reduces blowback in shooters face when suppressed. Less wear on weapon system when suppressed.
    Standard bolt
    MSRP $199.95
    Code JBA - takes $25 off

    Picture
    Picture
    Faxon Firearms - (click to purchase)   
    Chameleon PVD/QPQ/TiN
    6.24-ounce carrier only/8.5 ounce complete
    8620 Steel
    Mil Spec or better materials
    9310 Tool Steel Bolt
    Bolt Lugs Chamfered at 45 degrees
    Bolt MPI and Shot Peened
    MSRP $299.99

    Picture
    Sours: https://smallarmssolutions.com/home/enhanced-bolt-carriers-part-1
    Part 1 - LMT Enhanced Bolt Physical \u0026 LMT Enhanced BCG \u0026 Barrel Autopsy

    Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated > What does "enhanced" bolt carrier mean?


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    View Full Version : What does "enhanced" bolt carrier mean?


    ty423

    03-11-2008, 12:45 PM

    I see a pretty significant price jump from a standard bolt carrier then there is a "enhanced" bolt carrier. What is the difference? Is it worth the extra dough? What other different type of bolt and bolt carriers are there? What are the advantages of each.


    aplinker

    03-11-2008, 12:52 PM

    It means it's taken male enhancement supplements :D

    It has changes to the bolt carrier in terms of mass and geometry that improve strength & reliability

    The bolt itself has additional springs and gasket to improve reliability.


    NSR500

    03-11-2008, 1:20 PM

    Enhanced, like Stallone was for the most Recent Rambo movie. ;)


    I have an LMT Enhanced SA bolt carrier group in one of my OLLs. Basically it has minor difference with the most obvious being an extra gas port which supposedly increased the dwell time and allows for easier extraction of the spent case. This is also supposed to decrease the amount of residue buildup from the gas operated system. I would say that it is just a cool factor toy for the rifle and not worth the price unless you are going to be shooting a lot of round quickly and need your rifle to be reliable.


    So basically, since it was made for military full-auto applications, you wouldn't need it for recreational semi-auto shooting...right?

    If one were building a SHTF TEOTWAWKI rifle, would an enhanced bolt carrier group be preferred over a regular bolt carrier group?


    saki302

    03-11-2008, 4:02 PM

    The heavier weight should dampen recoil and aid feeding. My riflesmith uses carrier weights in his competition guns- he said it's easier on the brass too.

    -Dave


    What does different buffer weights do then?


    mike452

    03-11-2008, 7:53 PM

    It's been enhanced! It must be better!

    The price is crazy. LMT must have a patent on it.


    ar15barrels

    03-11-2008, 8:04 PM

    I put an LMT enhanced bolt carrier in my 6.8 SPC build to see if the additional weight would lower the recoil and help accuracy.
    I haven't shot it with a standard bolt, but something seems to be working right.
    http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/9184TA_68_Hrndy110vmx021907.jpg

    The carrier does not effect group size.
    That's just a good barrel. ;)


    The carrier does not effect group size.
    That's just a good barrel. ;)

    And a good shooter!


    ar15barrels

    03-11-2008, 8:13 PM

    What does "enhanced" bolt carrier mean?

    There are two basic types of features on carriers, either SP1 or M16.
    M16 is the original design.
    SP1 style have unshrouded firing pins and the auto-sear shelf moved back.
    These are changes that Colt did to keep civilians from building illegal machineguns.
    M16 carriers have a shrouded carrier and auto-sear trip.
    There are hybrid carriers that have the shrouded firing pin, but no auto-sear trip and these are becoming the "standard" as companies get away from the SP1 features.
    I call these hybrid carriers "AR-15 Enhanced" because they have the good features of an M16 bolt without the sear trip that makes some people question their legality as possible machine gun parts.

    http://ar15barrels.com/tech/ar15carriers.jpg

    LMT's "enhanced" carrier is a whole different beast.
    Some of the changes were mentioned above, but the most important one has been missed by everyone.
    The LMT enhanced carrier has a re-timed cam pin slot that delays unlocking.
    This is a specific benefit to carbine length gas system 14.5" and 16" barrels.
    This delayed unlocking is not beneficial on most other barrels and has actually caused short stroking in many cases.
    LMT specifically warns against using their enhanced carriers in 10.5" uppers.


    ar15barrels

    03-11-2008, 8:15 PM

    And a good shooter!

    The inside joke is that I made that barrel. ;)


    The inside joke is that I made that barrel. ;)

    Yeah, I pretty much presumed that one bud. :D

    Btw, Nice write up on the Enhanced Bolt Carrier.


    dfletcher

    03-11-2008, 8:41 PM

    May I piggy back the thread a bit?

    Embarking on my 1st build with two uppers, one a shorty and the other a 20" to 24" heavy barrel type. I don't mind spending money where it's needed, is buying each upper with the bolt carrier group included better than buying one with and one without, swapping the bolt between the two? I presume with good quality uppers and bolts the parts interchange - or should I have a bolt dedicated to each upper? Do the bolt & upper wear in together?


    aplinker

    03-11-2008, 9:49 PM

    Bolt Carrier Group for each upper.

    The carrier is less important than the bolt itself.


    oaklander

    03-11-2008, 10:03 PM

    I do not recognize those parts you speak of. Here is what I think of when I picture a BC:

    http://www.aa-ok.com/ak29.jpg

    :D

    They are all enhanced.


    ar15barrels

    03-11-2008, 10:17 PM

    Embarking on my 1st build with two uppers, one a shorty and the other a 20" to 24" heavy barrel type. I don't mind spending money where it's needed, is buying each upper with the bolt carrier group included better than buying one with and one without, swapping the bolt between the two? I presume with good quality uppers and bolts the parts interchange - or should I have a bolt dedicated to each upper? Do the bolt & upper wear in together?

    Do NOT share a bolt between two or more barrels.
    A bolt and barrel extension "seat" into each other within the first few hundred rounds.
    It wears each time it "seats" into a barrel, but then the wear mostly stops for the life of the part.
    So, each time you switch, it wears a little more.
    This wear is very minute, but after a while it will stack up into enough to make the bolt and both barrels go out-of-spec.

    At the bare minimum, dedicate a BOLT to each upper.
    You could swap the carrier and charging handle.
    In the end, it's not worth the hassle.
    Just get a complete bolt carrier group for each.
    You WILL eventually end up with another lower.
    It's a fact that lonely uppers breed lowers and lonely lowers breed uppers.


    ar15barrels

    03-11-2008, 10:18 PM

    I do not recognize those parts you speak of. Here is what I think of when I picture a BC:

    Silly AK kids... :D


    dfletcher

    03-11-2008, 10:32 PM

    Thanks for the info, off to Brownells for bolts.


    saki302

    03-11-2008, 10:49 PM

    My 'smith told me you run the heaviest carrier weight that will still allow your gun to function- and it usually works well with the heaviest one.

    You may also run M-16 carriers now since Colt puts them in all their semi rifles as of 06 or 07, I think- they basically told the ATF 'too bad'.. so now there is a precedence set..

    ATF not wanting them to use the M16 carrier is retarded, IMO. The easiest illegal FA conversion, the 'lightning link' does NOT work with the M16 carrier, so doesn't it make it harder to illegally convert by using one?

    -Dave


    wolfmann

    03-11-2008, 10:52 PM

    This should be a sticky,thank you for such a informative post.
    It helps this newbie out a lot on making decisions.


    aplinker

    03-11-2008, 11:20 PM

    Possibly true, but then you have to swap out bolts every time you change uppers. Plus the bore in the carrier sees more wear and tear. With a dedicated BCG for each upper you also don't need to keep track of which bolt goes with which barrel.

    Those are user issues, not rifle issues, but I completely agree it's far easier and the better choice. I was more referring to what is functionally an issue.


    randy

    03-12-2008, 12:25 AM

    Saki I don't know who is building your rifles but that logic isn't used by the top builders. JP and MSTN.

    They pretty much make the top of the line uppers for action shooting, I don't know about NRA hi power.

    When shooting your AR your sight disturbance isn't effected as much by the BCG recoiling as it is when it returns to battery.

    When it returns to battery your gun tips forward and to the right because of the mass of the BCG going forward and the bolt locking up to the right. A lighter carrier group, lighter recoil spring, buffer and adjustable gas block will give you less recoil.


    ar15barrels

    03-12-2008, 7:57 AM

    My 'smith told me you run the heaviest carrier weight that will still allow your gun to function

    This only applies to 16" carbine-gassed barrels.


    saki302

    03-12-2008, 3:03 PM

    I see..

    He did tell me with the weight system his AR-10 chews up brass much less.. but it is a carbine :D

    I have an adjustable block on my JP upper'd gun, and the weight on my carbine. The JP upper is so darn heavy I don't see how any carrier would affect it much- it pretty much sits there while firing, you can watch the bullets impact at 50-100 yards easily- very easily beyond that.

    -Dave


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